Author Topic: 1.9 troubles (Read 4688 times)

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2008, 09:42:12 pm »

Here's some pictures re: checking the timing.. yup the valve cover needs to come off to do the full meal timing deal:

http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28

Measuring 9V at the glow plugs means (a) they are probably OK and drawing lots of current and (b) you're losing at least 3V along the way due to resistance at various terminals, the big grounds, etc. Might make sense to clean the battery terminals, the big grounds to the chassis and transmission, and the glow plug relay and socket.... the more voltage you can deliver to the plugs the better !!

burn_your_money · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2008, 09:45:54 pm »

Here is a timing proceedure by none other then Mr Vince

http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28

Well I see he wastes no time tooting his own horn, looks like I`m 30 seconds too slow

Vincent Waldon · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2008, 09:55:39 pm »

Quote from: "burn_your_money"

looks like I`m 30 seconds too slow

...'cause I have a turbo, and you on the other hand are allergic to them.. :wink:

burn_your_money · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2008, 10:00:27 pm »

Bet I can do a headgasket twice as fast as you

Justin · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2008, 10:08:33 pm »

not sure if this will help but what I expirienced this past week and took my time fixing some things before I figured it out.

my TDI was starting a little harder lately and smoking very badly on start up and pretty bad all the time unless everything was really warmed up well and I was getting on it a little. the smoke was a blueish white and I thought for sure my turbo seals were going bad except that I wasnt using any oil. I also had an exhast leak (pre turbo) so I had to take everything apart anyway. when I took my turbo apart I found that the seals were good (no signs of oil leaking) but my variable gate lever exipited a lot of wear that was keeping the turbo from going to quick spool up position also while hanging up and keeping the vanes in a partially closed position longer. I welded up a tab on the lever to get everything back to what it should have been. fixed my leak and put everything back together. started it up and same thing. when I had my manifolds off I noticed my exhaust ports 3 and 4 were almost wet so I figured my injectors were hanging up. pulled my injectors and they were all coked up pretty bad (I wont get into why) cleaned everything up and put them back in and same thing when I started it up only this time when I hit the throttle it seamed to build up to much exhaust back pressure and nock more than normal and want to stall out. then I opened up my variable gate and everything smoothed out perfectly. the set screw for the lever had worn itself into the lever and was binding up in a quick spool position.

moral of the story, maybe you have something restricting your exhaust.

now Mine runs as if it were new and I am falling in love all over again.

later
jkeiffer

vanbcguy · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2008, 02:28:24 am »

9V sounds about right - it means all 4 glow plugs are probably drawing power. Due to the huge amount of current they draw, the voltage drops down quite a bit. It's not a sure thing (there's plenty of other reasons for a 4V drop other than "things are fine" but it's "normal")...

A separate relay is definitely a good idea. A few people have used a cheap starter solenoid (Ford or from a garden tractor, you name it) - easily available and cheap!

I'd definitely check timing next. I'm guessing you don't have any of the timing tools for a VW diesel - to do it the "factory" way you need a dial gauge with the right adapter and a cam lock.

You can do it just fine without though - on your transmission there's a plug you can remove to see the flywheel. At TDC there's a diamond shaped mark.

If you pull your valve cover you'll see a flat mark cut in to the end of the cam. When the TDC mark is centered in the inspection hole the flat mark cut in to the end of the cam should be perfectly parallel to the top of the head.

If the cam is lined up fine then you can go on to the injection pump timing (although you really need to figure out why the timing got out in the first place - good chance your timing belt isn't too happy and you just got lucky!) I personally set my timing by ear - if you advance it too much (move the top of the pump towards the head) it'll start sounding "rattly" like a Powerstroke. Too far retarded and it'll start running really badly. Basically you want it as advanced as possible without it knocking too much. But don't take my word for it, please please please read the many timing related posts and form your own opinion! The "book" way to do your timing involves measuring the actual position of the plunger inside the pump - this is great for a brand new pump with brand new injectors on an otherwise perfect engine but doesn't have all that much to do with an old engine...

gunrtd · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2008, 02:09:22 pm »

Little car is getting better. I rebuilt the worst two injectors, will do the other this weekend. Also retarded the IP timing a touch (just by ear). Still waiting the parts I bought off EBay to get here so I can set the timing properly. Figure I'll throw in a new belt at the same time. And I will put in a solenoid for the GP too.

But for now it starts and runs, and the smoke is barely noticeable.

vanbcguy · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2008, 11:58:10 am »

Glad to hear!

Once all 4 injectors are in the same condition it'll probably smooth out a bit too... I put new injectors in mine a while back and had one that wouldn't come out (or rather I wasn't about to crack my head to MAKE it come out!) - it definitely ran better with 3 new ones but now that #4 is done it's amazing how much more "consistent" the engine is.

I think the most useful thing you get from the proper timing tools is knowing your cam alignment is correct, and having an actual number for your IP timing so you can reproduce it if you ever have to take the pump off for some reason. Seems like every engine has its own "sweet spot" timing wise which may or may not be anywhere close to the book value.

My car has a 1.6TD in a body that should have a 1.9TD, and the IP has been replaced. Who knows if the IP that the previous owner put on was the exact same one as the 1.6TD that's in the car was supposed to have, or if it's a 1.9TD pump, or anything really. When I got it there was a LOT of smoke - got pulled over within 24 hours of buying the car. D'oh! My pump still had orange paint over all the adjustments from the pump rebuilder meaning it should have been "perfect" but it wasn't even close! Tells me the book value for timing probably wouldn't be right for my engine either...

gunrtd · « **Reply #23 on:** November 02, 2008, 02:01:37 am »

Well I tore into the little car today. When I bought the car about 6 weeks ago the owner gave me a reciept indicating he had just had the timing belt done a week prior.

Once everything was apart it was clear everything was wrong! Cam timing was off from TDC and even further off was the IP!!

I still don't have the tools I bought off Ebay to time the pump, but I got everything close. Fixed my coolant leak too, and found the upper rad hose housing was missing the o ring! It had some silicone smeared all around it!

Anyways with it all back together I hit the key - no cold start lever, no GP, and away she went with no smoke!! I can't believe how quiet it is, and after a little drive, I can't believe how much go it has now.
Having never owned a diesel car, I figured they were just dogs - My mind is changed now! Can't wait to fine tune the IP timing. Then some pump mods I've read about!!

I'm a marine mechanic and I've never taken my vehicles anywhere - glad I didn't give up on this one (I was getting close).

Still don't know how it was even running?!?

burn_your_money · « **Reply #24 on:** November 02, 2008, 10:01:59 am »

Are you just throwing new nozzles in your injectors without pop testing both opening pressures?

From the sets I have done at work, typically the primary opening pressure is too low and the secondary ends up too high. They usually don't wear evenly either so they will be out of balance.

gunrtd · « **Reply #25 on:** November 02, 2008, 11:50:08 am »

No I only cleaned and put them back together, they were pretty gummed up. I'll try and find some new nozzles and then send them out to get balanced. I know theres more to the injectors than what I have done.

Any one have plans for building a test

For now I'm happy, it's running awesome

dieselweasel · « **Reply #26 on:** November 02, 2008, 02:41:54 pm »

Seriously you need to still remove the crank sprocket to check the keyway for wear. There has to be a reason why the engine just started running poorly--timing doesn't change by itself. These engines are notorious for crankshaft sprocket keyway failures, and the first symptoms are often those of retarded timing. Get yourself a Bentley manual too, it will help a lot.