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1.6 TD or 1.9 TD for swap into westy? by jackbombay on 11 Jun, 2005 07:22
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It seems like the 1.9 would be the better of the two, but I don't think they were ever avalible in the states, only Canada and europe, and I have read that parts are expensive for them, at least the pistons. From what I have read the 1.9 does to like to rev as much as the 1.6 and has more power down low, both qualities seem fine for a westy. My buddy has a line on 1.6 and 1.9 TDs at a reasonable price so availability is not an issue. What would be the "ideal" motor of the 2 to swap in?
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#1 by rackley on 11 Jun, 2005 12:28
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Well I put in a 1.6TD into my 91 Jetta. If possible I would recommend the 1.9 over the 1.6 because 1) it has more power and torque, and 2) the serpentine belt. The belt system on the 1.6 is an absolute nightmare, especially the ones with an AC compressor (they almost ALL came with AC too.) Not only are they problematic, but the belts are nested 3 deep and chained off each other. Actually, that probably WHY they're problematic. I have driven my car maybe 100 miles since the swap and bought about 12 belts, two new pullys, and retensioned a million times. I would get the 1.9 simply because of the serpentine belt alone. :-)
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#2 by Otis2 on 11 Jun, 2005 13:12
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Jack, you just don't have enough TD engine swaps on the go yet, do you?
Everything is a compromise when swapping Westy motors, but of these two choices, the ideal motor, cost permitting, is definitely the 1.9 TD. At least, I went 1.9 TD in mine, and have not looked back.
Neither engine will be a rocket in a Westy. You're talking about a vehicle that can approach 5000 lbs when fully loaded.
I have a Giles pump & pretty efficient intercooler in mine, and given the limitations of the vehicle (ie. its heavy weight and appalling aerodynamics), with those two mods, it has acceptable performance. I can easily keep up with city traffic on accelleration (thanks in part to the insanely low transaxle gearing on a Vanagon - even on a 5 speed). Highway power is also acceptable, but depending on transmission and tire size, you're turning close to 4000 rpm at 70 mph, so the top speed is limited by your noise tolerance. Extra sound insulation is a MUST for this kind of swap, IMHO.
The 1.6 TD Vanagon was available from the factory in Europe. Mr. Brickyard here was posting about one that he was working on (the HOT HOT HOT thread). Hopefully he will chime in on his experience.
I wouldn't worry about the 1.9 not liking to rev as much as the 1.6. With the smaller turbo on the 1.9, you're in boost quicker than the 1.6, and off- (or low-) boost torque is fine, in my experience, at least with the fuel turned up & an intercooler. I found the 1.9 TD in the Westy, without intercooler and fueled at original factory settings, to be a truly gutless POS. The engine desperately needs more fuel than factory (car) stock when installed in a Westy, and I'm sure the problem would be even more accute in a 1.6 TD.
Even though Giles has hacked my governor, I'm hesitant to rev the snot out of the engine in such a heavy vehicle anyway, not to mention that anything over about 3900 rpm in a TD Westy will rattle the cabinets, pop-top struts, tables, and the fillings in your teeth.
On a purely mechanical objection to high revs (mixed with my paranoia and inherent mechanical conservatism), I think the guys here who are pushing the TD engine to the limits in their cars, may well find those limits a lot sooner on any Vanagon, and MUCH sooner in a heavily loaded Westy. I think oil temperature is the achilles heel in a TD Westy, probably on both engine types, so plan on a better aftermarket solution for that, even before intercooling.
Ideally, a person would test-drive a Westy with each type of motor in it, first, before going down this dark path themselves. I think you're around Portland, OR. The closest TD westies I know of that are "near" to you are in Vancouver, Canada, and one guy in Victoria, Canada who is installing a 1.6 TD in his westy (he posts here as "Westy TD"). Maybe there's someone closer who would let you test-drive their Westy, first.
Good luck! (And finish that Quantum, first!) -
#3 by jackbombay on 11 Jun, 2005 14:44
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Quote from: "Otis2"
Good luck! (And finish that Quantum, first!)
Thanks for the good info, I think I'll be in Vancouver Ca. around the end of July so I'll try to get in touch with westy TD then.
And yea, I definatley want/need to get the Quantum 5 banger TD swap finished first, I am in Idaho right now, but will be back in Portland soon and will hopefully have the Q finnished around late July. This potential westy swap reasearch is for me and a buddy, there are 3-4 people out in Idaho where my wife and I are renting our house that want TDs in their westies so they can run BD from our new Bio co-op. So at this point we are weighing options and trying to figure the best approach.
Improved oil and intercooling would be dealt wwith right off the bat, nearly twice as much vehicle with less ventillation needs all the help it can get. -
#4 by janb on 12 Jun, 2005 15:49
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Have you checked with Karl M (westyman), he is sometimes hard to find, but send me a p mail if you need his addy. He has done many conversions, is an Overland dealer, and recently upgraded his own westy synchro 1.9TD to a 1.9 TDI w/ mechanical pump.(italy) He is from Maryland, but frequently is out here, and has always come for Mog-Fest (don't know dates this year).
He ran his 1.9 IDI to limits with the larger 1.6 Turbo, and finally found the weak spot to be Heat in the Head (running ~20# boost for a few months)
It developed numerous cracks, then finally was beyond repair.
The 1.9 is much better for torque, and mine seem to handle same RPM as 1.6 (so far) The TDI would really be nice, but... tranny ratio could be an issue. They seem to be pretty flat over 3000, where an IDI runs well to 4000
Maybe you can find a cheap TDI from wreck, there was one in Bellevue for $1500 a while back,