1.5 and 1.6 injector differences

[shotwell]

From what I understand (I've been searching) the 1.5 injectors from my 1980 Dasher will physically fit in my 1985 Golf, which has a 1.6NA.  What I don't know about are the pressures...are they different?  Will the Golf run right after the swap?

The reason I'm asking this: My 1980 Dasher has an Elsbett kit installed.  The car unfortunately is a complete disaster.  It has SO many things wrong with it, the latest being a cracked cylinder head,  that I've decided to junk it.  My 1985 Golf is a car I haven't had for as long and would like to swap the Elsbett conversion into.  I think everything is the same between the kits except the injectors.  Apparently Elsbett uses a specially modified injector, or at least a modified nozzle.  Maybe the nozzles are interchangeable?

Elsbett doesn't seem to want to help me out since I personally didn't buy the kit from them...the previous owner of the Dasher did.  Can someone shed some light on this for me?

[burn_your_money]

Where do you live? I'd be insterested to see the dasher if you are close

Yes both injectors will interchange. What is this kit you speak of?

[Turbinepowered]

The TDI Elsbett kits use modified injectors... sometimes. I doubt your kit has special injectors, though. I haven't heard of an IDI single-tank kit that had special injector requirement. Single-tank Elsbett kits for Mercedes are much more common, though.

I've noticed lots of folks like to throw the Elsbett name about.

[shotwell]

I'm Oak Harbor, Washington, just northwest of Seattle.  I updated my profile...sorry about that!

Yes, I've seen the Elsbett name thrown around quite a bit as well.  I do have an actual Elsbett kit though.  I have the receipt for it.  Unfortunately I don't have the parts list, instructions or wiring diagram though.  Anyone have those laying around?  It would be helpful when I'm transferring the kits around.

I've read on the internet (and Elsbett has confirmed) that the injector nozzles are special.  They modify the spray pattern as to not get VO on the cylinder walls, which would be especially harmful during startup.  The kit also contains special glow plugs that are meant to stay on for several minutes while the system warms up.

I was worried about pop pressures because I know for sure the 1.5 and 1.6 NA injector pumps are different.  Do you guys think I should put the special nozzles in the 1.6 injectors, or just swap the entire injectors?

[gigaz2]

duratherms are that special type glowplugs, the actual time is controlled by the glow plug relay.
I'd like some specs on those injectors, in Europe I hear people use dnosd297 for svo.

[shotwell]

Where do I get duratherms?

What is dnosd297?

Sorry, I'm a newb to these forums.

[Turbinepowered]

DNO SD279 is an injector nozzle part number, Bosch specific if I'm not mistaken. See if you can get a part # out of Elsbett for your IDI engine, I've only seen the special nozzles for DI conversions on the other forums I frequent (SVO and Biodiesel specific).

The glow plug relay controls the duration of the preglow/postglow periods, so without the extended glow relay you won't get any additional glow time with special glow plugs. Again, usually I see specialized glow plugs more typically on the TDI conversions.

As for swapping injectors, if it makes you feel better, move the whole bodies over. 1.5 and 1.6 injectors are spacially compatible, fit in the same spots with the same lines and the same threads. 1.5NA and 1.6NA engines have compatible specified pop pressures, with the 1.6TD getting a higher opening pressure.



In other news, looks like Elsbett is trying to take credit for "facilitating the breakthrough" that lead to the TDI? Or am I misreading their ambiguous statement here?

"The ELSBETT Engine was developed in the 70’s as technological development tool for the automobile industry. Direct injection, turbo charging, intercooling, unit injection and many other technical details that can be found in modern diesel engines were developed at the time. It facilitated the breakthrough of the direct injection (TDI) for passenger cars."

[shotwell]

The glow plug relay is bypassed in the Elsbett system.  The VO filter heater and glow plugs stay on until the engine reaches a high enough operating temperature.  There is a temp sensor mounted in a coolant line that tells it when to turn off, once the coolant is hot enough to take over heating duties.  It's not uncommon for the system to stay on for 8-10 minutes.

Elsbett says they ship special glow plugs that are made to stay on that long.  I know standard 7 second plugs would probably burn out in a week.  Even the older style plugs would likely be toast in a few months.  Are these Duratherm plugs really the answer?  

Also, I searched...still can't figure out where to get them.  Can't find the injector nozzles either for that matter.  Got any sources?

Thanks for the info on the injectors.  I think I'm going to get them cleaned and at least tested before I drop them in my 1.6.

[Turbinepowered]

When you go buying new glow plugs, make sure they will physically fit in the chamber if they aren't stock or OE replacement plugs.

TDI-type glow plugs are different dimensions than IDI plugs, and I don't believe they'll interchange. Also the thread pitch might be different.

[shotwell]

Does anyone know which Duratherm plugs fit in the IDI 1.6 engine?

[burn_your_money]

Yes they do, I use them all the time

[shotwell]

I'm having trouble sourcing them.  Where do you buy yours?  Is there a specific part number?

[gigaz2]

when you open the injectors please write down the reference of the nozzles.