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Author Topic: quick question about PD crank  (Read 15806 times)

Reply #15July 18, 2008, 05:51:16 pm

jtanguay

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2008, 05:51:16 pm »
i believe for reliability PD is the way to go.  vw invested way too much money into the PD motor.  the main reason they switched was due to the new emissions crap that required an extra injector to injecto fuel to burn off the carbon in the particulate filter.

i guess if there was a way of making the CR engine leak proof, then it does have quite a bit of potential.  not having to worry about the camshaft being worn down is just one bonus...


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Reply #16July 18, 2008, 06:44:48 pm

gigaz2

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2008, 06:44:48 pm »
PD has 3 pumps and a common rail:
-the lift pump (it works without it, but it affects performance)
-a low pressure pump (~400Bar i think) feeding a common rail that feeds the
-PD "injectors" are the final pump (1800~2000Bar)

so if you look closely at the PD system, it is a overpriced CR system with a few tweaks.

the common rail is built into the head on the PD system, the only difference is that the CR system has one pumping stage less than the PD, even the ECU could be the same.
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Reply #17July 18, 2008, 07:21:48 pm

Tintin

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2008, 07:21:48 pm »
PD in tank pump = 10-12psi,  the pump feeding the injector deliver around 50 psi idle and regulated 109psi a 1500 to redline.

I do not think that the sealing (o-ring) on the PD injector in the rail can  support the high pressure of the CR pump.

Reply #18July 19, 2008, 07:05:35 am

oldskool rich

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2008, 07:05:35 am »
so how can a VE head be made to produce as much bhp?
if they rev better then, thats a good start

VE pumps can be made to run about 25000psi, is that not enough? sumone on the IDI section told me that fuel pressure doesnt make you go any faster, does it?


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Reply #19July 19, 2008, 11:01:57 am

Tintin

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2008, 11:01:57 am »
Maybee with 14mm head and stock nozzle....    PD motor produre 200-220BHP with stock 0.180mm nozzle with very little smoke.

Is necessary to know that the pressure also increases with the rpm and/or load.

I agree that PD motor It's not a high rev motor, I have one, and past 4000rpm the power start to fall down very much,  and at 4500 it's really the time to shift up another gear, and VE have a good power untill 5000rpm. But the fact is that both engine have the peak power around 3700-3800rpm and the power start to fall down past this rpm,  it is only that the PD power drops more quickly.

Reply #20July 19, 2008, 01:36:52 pm

gigaz2

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2008, 01:36:52 pm »
I believe the steepness of the power curve depends more on the electronics than in the technology itself.

I wasn't saying that PD could be converted to CR, I was only stating that it already has a common rail feeding the PD units, the only difference is another pumping stage.

a VE doing more than 300hp? sure, its a jetta on a Performance Diesel magazine I have laying around.... somewhere
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Reply #21July 20, 2008, 03:49:28 am

hatemi

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2008, 03:49:28 am »
Well I have seem too many camshaft problems with PD engine so I wont be bothered with them. The cam lobes and followers wear down FAST and what you have then.... A hole in a follower and a non running engine.

Reply #22July 20, 2008, 08:06:59 am

gigaz2

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2008, 08:06:59 am »
page 190 of DieselPower magazine, vol4 nš1 (January 2008):


12mm head, vnt17 hybrid, kerma injectors (they don't say witch), port and polish done to the head, Nitrous injection, large FMIC, 2,5" mufflerrectomy, upsolute tuning.

35psi of max boost, and it still makes a huge cloud even on nitrous :O

the numbers are: 350hp, 550 lb-ft at the crank

it took the owner 6 years, several thousand dollars and a lot of bent connecting rods ;)
he owns a tuning company with a dyno...
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Reply #23July 20, 2008, 08:40:32 am

hatemi

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2008, 08:40:32 am »
Well that is very debatable. Do a search at tdiclub and youll see few points. But in conclusion my wiev about that is it is possible to get that on a very optimistic dyno with weird  correction factors for a dynorun. The engine wont last very long with that power and most importantly that turbo.

Reply #24July 20, 2008, 09:12:23 am

gigaz2

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2008, 09:12:23 am »
oldskool rich asked if it was possible to build a VE to develop more than 300bhp, he wants it to do drag runs... well I believe you can build it to develop way more than 300bhp, as it will only need to last a few runs.

in my view tdi's reliability ends at around 200bhp depending on the driving style.

making drag runs... a few minutes per engine is more than enough in reliability terms
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Reply #25July 20, 2008, 10:55:16 am

hatemi

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2008, 10:55:16 am »
There are alot of 300hp projects going at the moment. 300 hp isnt some magical barrior that you just cant reach. My aim is even more but I dont curently have a chasis worthy of the engine so I'm building a basic 200+ daily driver from my golf and when I find an Audi coupe Quattro preferably without the engine then I'll continnue with the monster engine.

200hp reliably is easy as hell. Just dont use tiny winy turbo and limit the torque down low with the program and it will last a long time.

Reply #26July 20, 2008, 11:11:37 am

gigaz2

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2008, 11:11:37 am »
Quote from: "hatemi"

200hp reliably is easy as hell. Just dont use tiny winy turbo and limit the torque down low with the program and it will last a long time.


exactly what I meant ;)

ps: if I could convert a audi coupe to diesel legally, it would be my dream car
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Reply #27July 20, 2008, 08:14:23 pm

oldskool rich

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2008, 08:14:23 pm »
thanx for everyones input, i hav been known to dabble in drag racing but this engine is actualy for a T25 crew cab. most important thing is reliablity also i want 300bhp  :roll:  not asking much realy. there must be a set up that can take it. ive got a 2.0 pd 6 speed box already, that should take the power. was gona go T28 turbo in the intrest of reliability also got PD crank, rods and pistons. if anyone can recomend any other parts that wud be good. still havent decided on a block yet.

this is gona be my ultimate daily for life hopfully. it ticks all the boxes. gona chuck my caddy and stick with this i think :D

anyone know what sort of quater mile a T25 cud hit with an engine like that?


f6squared I.D.S.T

Reply #28July 20, 2008, 08:28:16 pm

gigaz2

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2008, 08:28:16 pm »
depends on the weight, frontal area and drag coefficient, and a few other stuff.

tell us those parameters, and it may be possible to calculate your time on the quarter.
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Reply #29July 21, 2008, 01:30:11 am

hatemi

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quick question about PD crank
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2008, 01:30:11 am »
Well youre going to have a hard time finding a Garrett capable of giving you the 2.5bar of boost reliably. If you go with single turbo then I would recomend a large VNT like GT3571V or similar in size. It will still be slow on the spoolup. Or for a WG unit HX/HE35 can deliver the preasure needed but are on the slow side too. If money isnt a conser then Holset HE221W is your choise. Its alot smaler than HX35 but it is designed for high preasure. I mean high since the actuator it comes with from the factory starts to crack open at 2bar or so. It was designed to withstand 2-3bar of boost  :twisted:

 

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