Author Topic: Curious IP timing question (Read 2902 times)

theman53 · « **on:** June 07, 2008, 08:07:12 pm »

Years ago I bought a timing kit from the Jack guy on that other vw forum. It has worked great until now. The IP and Cam tools are still just fine, but the tool to set the IP isn't working well for me now. I only have an inch guage and was trying to set the timing and couldn't get a consistant number. If I rolled the engine over and checked it again it would read .008" to .01" higher than it did when I set it. Puzzeled I pushed in on the dial indicator and it would "slide" down the ramp about .005" let go and it would either stay there or jump up a couple of thousandths. I ended up just setting it at .040" without touching it and when it was pushed in at that setting it was about .035". I haven't ran it yet. BTW it is for an 86 NA Jetta. Any ideas and thoughts if when I do fire it and it doesn't go well??? If I can't get a set value that runs well am I down to timing it by ear?

jtanguay · « **Reply #1 on:** June 07, 2008, 08:40:09 pm »

thats what makes the digi timing set very attractive

the dial indicators are extremely delicate. always store in a case and NEVER drop it or even bang it.

theman53 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 07, 2008, 09:59:34 pm »

Yes I agree. The problem is more with the long piece that is screwed into the dial indicator. It isn't real sharp. It is blunt and I think that is the problem anyway and was wondering if you guys had similar dealings. The piece in question is just rounded smooth, and I think if it had a sharper point it wouldn't do this... that or the new pump piston is giving me a weird reading. Let me know what you guys have went through on this if possible

rabbitpower · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2008, 07:15:52 am »

I have the mitsutoyo dial set. I do work with alot of these gauges at work though. The main culperit is letting them set w/out using them. The plunger will get sticky in the barrel and sometimes cause the problem you speak of. A drop of oil may help but don't overdo it and use a very light viscosity. Burrs on the plunger can also cause issues. Hope this helps.

theman53 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 08, 2008, 09:55:04 am »

Yeah I sell Mitutoyo stuff at my new job. I bought the set in the picture. I didn't get it with the dail indicator. The dail indicator was over half of the price and I had too many friends that had good ones I could borrow. I now have 2 of my own. Anyway the piece on the bottom left that attaches to the dial indicator and slides into the piece that you screw into the IP...I think that is the problem. I think if it had a sharper point I could get a more accurate reading. I just wanted to know if anyone out there had a similar experiece and what to do. Who knows it could be my 250.00 with a 150.00 core pump that I got instead of my tools. At this point I am just guessing on everything and that is why I am asking you guys.

rabbitpower · « **Reply #5 on:** June 08, 2008, 12:00:23 pm »

I am still studying the internal injector pump schematics, but isn't the whole jist of the dial plunger to pick up on the highest point on the cam plate, sort of like the "Lift" on a camshaft?. If the surface of the cam plate is uniform it should not matter too much if the dial end is round, pointed, or square. Theoretically you are only touching one point anyway right?. We use primarily radiused ends because most of the part measurement we do is angular.

gigaz2 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2008, 12:33:13 pm »

the cam has +-2mm lift on a 1.6 and 3mm on a 1.9.
we want the point where the lift reaches 1mm
0 is on the big space between lobes

so the tip should be as small as possible, a slightly dull needle would be the best really.

burn_your_money · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2008, 01:11:22 pm »

Make sure you have no sideload on the gauge or the timing tool. It will give eratic readings like what you are having.

theman53 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2008, 11:06:15 pm »

thanks guys. It ran for the first time in a year tonight. It seems a little tin sounding so I must have it advanced. Also when I got it all going my cold start cable doesn't do anything now. Worked fine when the IP had no fuel or pressure on it now it won't go down. Even if I take a screw driver and push on it it will come right back up.
Now a Curious cold start queston???

vdubin_g60 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2008, 12:08:52 am »

i have the same problem i can move it back in the enigne bay on the IP and it stays but if i push it in it doesn;t go in? need a new cable or?

theman53 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2008, 09:25:30 pm »

Yeah my cold start lever you can push in the engine compartment with a screwdriver and still it will spring back up. I will play with the timing a little bit, but it still smokes white and doesn't idle well. Compression on number 4 wasn't all that good, but it was cold I think it was 320 the rest were 370-380. Maybe I will just run it and finally build my Turbo motor :wink: