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Hybrid injection pump
by
Greasecar
on 16 Oct, 2007 20:01
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Well, I spent all weekend installing a TD pump and finding time since my flywheel was out of index only to find that the pump I installed was junk. Not only was it leaking from every seal but when cracked open severe corrosion and scoring.
The pump had been stored dry for a number of years and obviously moisture took its toll.
In any case, I need to come up with a pump solution and plan on building a pump hopefully whith what I have on hand. I have two 1.6 TD pumps only one of which I have cracked open and all of the guts need to be replaced, an 1.6 NA pump known to be working (as of last Friday) and an ALH pump from my fire damaged Golf. The ALH pump is in good shape and it looks like most of the internals can swap, does anyone know of any threads that cover this hybridization?
The primany differences seem to be longer springs on the piston assembly and the asymetrical curve on the roller plate. What I need to figure out is what ALH parts and what 1.6 parts need to go in.
Here's the ALH rollers
Here is the 1.6 pump
As you can see, the lower part of the bore is narrower in the ALU pump but the rollers and pins appear interchangable.
The 1.6 roller plate has shorter symetrical peaks compared to that of the ALH and a spring behind it.
The two obvious scenarios seem to be:
1. Use the ALH assembly all the way back to the rollers.
2. Use the ALH assembly but replace the piston return springs with those from the 1.6.
I could just use parts from the other 2 1.6 pumps to just get something fress but where's the fun in that?
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#1
by
JunkcollectorJ
on 17 Oct, 2007 10:48
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how about just adding the boost aneroid from the TD pump to your old, known good, NA pump? Might not be the best option, but I would think it'd be the easiest and fastest fix.
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#2
by
Greasecar
on 17 Oct, 2007 14:11
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Unfortunately that pump faught me all the way since some one had my puller and I couldn't find another suitible one locally that day, now the front seal is tweaked. It's okay though because I have another old TD pump that has been on the shelf for 7+ years. I had written it of because it was all crusty looking and mysterious but I just cracked it open and it's mint!. So I'll throw seals in it and use that as a nice stck setup.
It was stored dry as well but didn't corrode like the other, I think the other one was damaged to begin with because the rollers wouldn't have gotten that way just from sitting. The whole timing advance mechanism was filled with rust and is stuck solid so I think someone may have run some water through it before it was pulled. Just goes to show you can't judge a book by its cover.
I'll post photos of the two later.
I still want to build a hybrid pump though because I have the stuff to do it. Right now the plan is to use the 10mm head from the TDI, a cam plate from a 1.9 IDI and 1.6 stuff for the rest. It is amazing how everything swaps over perfectly but the delivery valves and cam plates are the big variable.
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#3
by
Gearhead
on 29 May, 2008 17:32
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Greasecar,
Did you get anywhere with this? I'm about to dig into a similar project, and would like any insight you can give.
Thanks,
Don.
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#4
by
coyboy69
on 29 May, 2008 18:15
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Check out newbielink:http://www.dieselvw.com [nonactive]
They have some upgrade parts for 1.6 pump that are an upgrade which consist of a few 1.9 tdi parts which are interchangeable.
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#5
by
gigaz2
on 30 May, 2008 02:19
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the newer 1.9 camplate seems to be directly compatible with tdi heads.
I'll pull mine apart asap to check it, just cleaned it on the outside.
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#6
by
gigaz2
on 30 May, 2008 05:15
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I guess I scored, it has a 9mm head on 3mm lift camplate
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#7
by
jimfoo
on 30 May, 2008 07:18
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Might check the plunger foot then. Mine has the higher lift cam plate as well, but has the smaller plunger foot, which isn't compatible with a TDI head.
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#8
by
gigaz2
on 30 May, 2008 07:51
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just done that, took my 1Z pump apart and the pin doesn't fit, I can't confirm the 0,3mm difference exactly, but its really close to that.
Jimfoo, how did you made it fit? I am thinking in buying a new camplate, if I can get the part number.
or making the pin smaller, but I don't have a lathe :cry:
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#9
by
jimfoo
on 30 May, 2008 08:11
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I bought a TDI camplate and springs from Prothe. I thought about the lathe, but was sure that it would ruin the plunger with the jaws as it is such a close tolerance.
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#10
by
Greasecar
on 31 May, 2008 09:44
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I still haven't gotten around to putting together a hybrid pump but did put a 1.9 camplate in my 1.6 pump along with the usual timing advance and governor modifications. To be honest I didn't find the cam plate to make a big difference, the governor and timing advance mods seemed to be more relevant. The camplate was an Asian part from Prothe though, so it is a bit mysterious.
I think the key factors on doing a TDI pump head onto a 1.6 pump will be figuring out what camplate, springs and shims to use. You won't want there to be any chance that the piston will bottom out in the head.
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#11
by
gigaz2
on 01 Jun, 2008 07:39
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YAY, just got my 10mm plunger mated with the 1.9 cam
I wrapped the plunger in a soft tissue, got the softest disc on my grinder and carefully rotated the plunger in a steady way.
in 4 passes the plunger had exactly the same behaviour as the 1.9 in the 1.9 cam.
now I have to get my nerve to put it in the car.
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#12
by
gigaz2
on 02 Jun, 2008 11:47
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when messing with the IP sprocket do remember to lock the cam and pump BEFORE taking it apart... I now have a major forced rebuild scheduled... :?
but, its how you learn
btw, 10mm plunger is already installed and shimmed governor as well.