Author Topic: Jake's KKK K24 Rebuild - restored  (Read 47995 times)

Reply #15March 27, 2008, 06:38:55 pm

Baselyne

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Jake's KKK K24 Rebuild - restored
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2008, 06:38:55 pm »
this thread is damn good and should be saved forsure

Reply #16April 07, 2008, 06:43:15 pm

clipper

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« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2008, 06:43:15 pm »
hey all very good right up
does anyone know where these rebuild kits can be purchased from?
thanks craig

Reply #17April 08, 2008, 12:56:20 pm

turbosuzi

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« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2008, 12:56:20 pm »
they sell the on ebay, here is the item #    380013005387

Reply #18March 16, 2009, 10:24:35 pm

dubbinchris

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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2009, 10:24:35 pm »
Sorry to bump up an old thread.

I plan to use this as a reference in the next few months but have a question.  I was telling a local VW turbo guru friend of mine about my desire to rebuild my own turbo and he says I should leave it to a pro b/c they need to be rebalanced once taken apart and reassembled.  Any thoughts?  Also where is the best place currently to get a good rebuild kit with that 360 deg thrust bearing?  I'm not sure if I'll be picking up the KKK or the Garrett version though.
1983 Quantum TD
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Reply #19March 17, 2009, 12:21:05 pm

subsonic

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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2009, 12:21:05 pm »
gpopshop has kits.  call for the k24 kit.  If you mark everything well, you can do it with out rebalance.  If you want, you can just send in the wheels and shaft for rebalance.  New machines will get it better than one from 20+ years ago.  CHeck out all the costs.  There might not be that much difference between having them do a performance rebuild(includes balance) and you buying the kit and paying for a balance.  You will still save by doing t your self, just figure out how much.
2009 Jetta TDI Loyal edition, 6-spd. 16V 2.0CR


1985 VW Golf 5-spd, 4-door, 1.6NA  Bought from orig. owner in Savannah with 42,000 miles.
"Making the jump NA to TD" slow but sure.

1980 VW Rabbit LS 5-spd, 4-door 1.6NA almost 450,000miles  RIP

Reply #20March 17, 2009, 12:43:19 pm

dubbinchris

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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2009, 12:43:19 pm »
Ok, thanks for the reply.

How do I get ahold of this company?
1983 Quantum TD
1988 Fox Wagon
1991 Wolfsburg Golf
1986 NA Diesel Golf (sold)
1990 S-10 Blazer

Reply #21March 17, 2009, 12:59:47 pm

jtanguay

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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2009, 12:59:47 pm »
Quote from: "dubbinchris"
Ok, thanks for the reply.

How do I get ahold of this company?


http://www.gpopshop.com/


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Reply #22March 17, 2009, 06:57:47 pm

BlueMule

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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2009, 06:57:47 pm »
Thanks for the save, maybe worth a sticky or a place in the FAQ
BlueMule
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Reply #23March 17, 2009, 07:51:53 pm

jtanguay

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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2009, 07:51:53 pm »
Quote from: "BlueMule"
Thanks for the save, maybe worth a sticky or a place in the FAQ


already there  :wink:

tyler made an impressive sticky thread with links to all sorts of good relevant topics!  its very clean and tidy, so the FAQ doesn't have a bunch of sticky's clogging everything up.


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Reply #24March 17, 2009, 08:06:29 pm

rallydiesel

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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2009, 08:06:29 pm »
Anybody know how exactly turbos are balanced? Is there some sort of electromagnetic superconductor that the shaft is placed on for zero friction or what?  :wink:
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Reply #25March 17, 2009, 09:00:31 pm

subsonic

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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2009, 09:00:31 pm »
Little google action turned this up:

TURBOCHARGER BALANCING

FACTS AND MISCONCEPTIONS

One of the most important parts of building a turbocharger that will operate quietly and efficiently for a long time is being sure that the rotating components are properly balanced. The problem is that many people do not know what “properly balanced” really means.

Unbalance is usually expressed as the product of weight and radius. If a one gram weight is placed at a one inch radius on a balanced part, the part is said to be unbalanced by one gram-inch. Modern turbocharger tolerances are typically expressed in milligram-inches, or thousandths of a gram-inch. For example, the Garrett T-3 and T-4 frame turbos generally have component balance tolerances around .010 gram-inches (10 milligram inches).

One area of confusion about balancing is component versus assembly balance. Turbocharger rotating groups are made up of several component parts that are assembled to make up the rotating assembly. Of these components, only the turbine and compressor wheels are component balanced. Balancing of these components is critical, and must be done prior to assembly. The axial thrust spacers and compressor locknut are not balanced, and the mechanical fit of these components are subject to machining tolerance limits. When these pieces are mated a certain amount of “stackup” unbalance is introduced into the completed turbo.

Stackup unbalance is not a major concern with larger turbochargers. Typically, the turbine and compressor wheels in these turbos are balanced to a tolerance substantially closer than required by the assembled turbo. This way, when the components are assembled, the stackup unbalance is not large enough to cause a problem with the complete turbo.

With the increasing popularity of small turbos in automotive applications, stackup unbalance has become more of a factor. Due to the light mass and high rotational speeds of these small units, simply balancing the components to an overly close tolerance may not be enough. The typical symptoms of a slightly unbalanced small turbo are oil leakage from the ends of the bearing housing, and “screaming,” an unbalance induced vibration of the rotating assembly. The fastest, most effective method of eliminating the stackup unbalance that causes these problems is to trim balance the moving parts of the assembled turbo CHRA (center housing rotating assembly).

It is possible to build turbos that are well balanced without CHRA balancing. The turbo builder must be very critical during the inspection and assembly portions of the rebuild to assure the quality of all the components, and their fit with each other. Many of the best “custom” turbo builders do not CHRA balance due to a combination of critical inspection and careful assembly procedures. Higher volume builders of turbos, and shops desiring to have complete knowledge and control of the assembly process, perform some type of CHRA balancing.

There are basically two types of CHRA balancing, high speed (VSR) and low speed (balancing machine). The VSR (vibration sort rig) is a machine that uses compressed air to spin the assembled CHRA to a relatively high speed, while pressure oiling the bearings and sensing vibration of the unit. Small unbalance corrections are then made on the compressor nose or nut to fine or trim balance the unit.

Balancing machine CHRA balancing consists of mounting an assembled turbo CHRA in a conventional two plane dynamic balancing machine. The rotating assembly is then driven at a relatively low speed by belt or air, and unbalance readings are taken on both the compressor and turbine ends of the rotating assembly. Oil is not pressure fed into the turbo, as the shaft is prelubricated before the balancing operation. The low speed and short cycle time preclude the need for pressurized lubrication.

Either type of CHRA balancing will generally eliminate stackup unbalance to an acceptable degree. Machine balancing has a slight advantage, in that the rotating components are dual plane balanced, as opposed to single plane balancing with the VSR. The main advantage of the VSR is that the turbo has actually spun at high speed, so the operator may be able to hear unusual noises from the turbo, and in some cases the oil flow can be checked (though this is not very reliable.)

Another common misconception about balancing is that balancing at higher speeds results in closer balancing. This is not inherently true. A rigid rotor that is out of balance by 10 milligram inches at 1000 RPM will be out of balance by 10 milligram inches at 100,000 RPM. The force created by a given amount of unbalance increases exponentially as speed increases, but the absolute amount of unbalance does not. It is critical that the balancing equipment being used has sufficient sensitivity to balance the rotor to the necessary tolerance at the desired balancing speed, but balancing at operational speed is rarely advantageous. The logistic and safety considerations of very high speed balancing rarely outweigh any accuracy gained.

In conclusion, the key to maximum life out of a turbocharger is proper selection of components, precision balancing of those components, and careful assembly of the turbo. An additional balancing operation performed on the completed turbo is not absolutely necessary in most cases, but it does provide a higher degree of confidence in the final product.

Article copyright 2002, Heins Balancing Systems, Inc., the TURBO-PAC balancing specialists.

The preceding article was written by Mark Bowman, President and CEO of Heins Balancing Systems, Inc. Heins is the world’s largest supplier of balancing equipment into the turbocharger aftermarket, and supplies both OEMs and aftermarket facilities worldwide. For more information, visit the Heins website at www.heins-balancing.com.

Mr. Bowman has been in the turbocharger balancing business since 1975, and regularly gives seminars and classes on turbo repair and failure analysis. Having built turbo systems and turbos, as well as owning turbocharged vehicles, Mr. Bowman has a good “hands on” view of turbos.

And this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMA5RFpGRbg
2009 Jetta TDI Loyal edition, 6-spd. 16V 2.0CR


1985 VW Golf 5-spd, 4-door, 1.6NA  Bought from orig. owner in Savannah with 42,000 miles.
"Making the jump NA to TD" slow but sure.

1980 VW Rabbit LS 5-spd, 4-door 1.6NA almost 450,000miles  RIP

Reply #26March 25, 2009, 10:33:30 pm

clyde

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« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2009, 10:33:30 pm »
starrd, what engine will you use this turbocharger on?

Reply #27March 26, 2009, 01:06:27 pm

anto

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Jake's KKK K24 Rebuild - restored
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2009, 01:06:27 pm »
Subsonic - in laymans terms does that mean if i disassemble a turbo of its moving parts and put it together again it will still be balanced as it is the components that are balanced and they would still be balcned unless i change something on them?

The added "spinning" balance is done more for piece of mind?

Reply #28March 26, 2009, 01:31:03 pm

subsonic

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« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2009, 01:31:03 pm »
If you mark everything well, and reassmeble it back on those marks, then it should be back to the original balance as it came from the factory.  The side note would be--as long as there has not been any contact or damage to the wheels or the shaft.
2009 Jetta TDI Loyal edition, 6-spd. 16V 2.0CR


1985 VW Golf 5-spd, 4-door, 1.6NA  Bought from orig. owner in Savannah with 42,000 miles.
"Making the jump NA to TD" slow but sure.

1980 VW Rabbit LS 5-spd, 4-door 1.6NA almost 450,000miles  RIP

Reply #29March 26, 2009, 02:16:24 pm

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Ti Hardware
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2009, 02:16:24 pm »
You can find Ti hardware form this site

METTEC.COM

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