Turbo independent lubrication system. Which oil? - page 2 - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

#15 by Vincent Waldon on 08 Mar, 2008 10:46
I think this is a great experiment... looking forward to the pictures. Would I go to all this particular extra effort in this one area myself... probably not. Gonna enjoy learning from someone else's experience ? Absolutely !!

The after-run cool down cycle is pretty standard as a way to deal with heat soak... given how self-contained you are building this system you could easily add a simple timer circuit to run your oil cooling system for a few minutes after you shut down the engine. Or close the loop completely and have the after-run cooling cycle temperature controlled ?? Sounds like you have an oil temperature sensor in place already ?
#16 by haybayian on 08 Mar, 2008 12:13
Quote from: "Vincent Waldon"
I think this is a great experiment... looking forward to the pictures. Would I go to all this particular extra effort in this one area myself... probably not. Gonna enjoy learning from someone else's experience ? Absolutely !!

The after-run cool down cycle is pretty standard as a way to deal with heat soak... given how self-contained you are building this system you could easily add a simple timer circuit to run your oil cooling system for a few minutes after you shut down the engine. Or close the loop completely and have the after-run cooling cycle temperature controlled ?? Sounds like you have an oil temperature sensor in place already ?

Thanks Vincent for your supporting thoughts. Yes what I am doing is "experimenting". There may be other ways to achieve the same goal. An electric pre-lube (non continuous) pump plumbed to the engine oil piping somewhere is one I have read about. All I think my system provides over the former is the choice of a separate oil and cooler. It is also "non invasive". What I am doing is to disconnect the VW turbo oil supply line, plug it at the filter mount and set up the contraption that I was describing yesterday directly to the turbo. I don't expect my system to be perfect but rather that it will need to be fine tuned, modified etc.

Indeed I plan to wire a timer so that the turbo lubricating system will be running before the engine starts and after it has been shut down. I have not given this any attention yet .

Haybayian
#17 by haybayian on 12 Mar, 2008 13:25
Quote from: myke_w
I'm interested to see your setup, and understand your logic, so I'm not interested in bashing

As promised. Please find below a picture of the components of my turbo independent lubrication system.

From left to right:

1) a home built independent oil can. This is a steel box approximately 6" x6" x6". Inside I have set a baffle so that the oil return will not be interfered with . The whole idea about this item is that oil should be allowed to drain down from the turbo with no obstacle. This is the logic of the stock VW discharge (to the oil pan) and I have stuck to it. On my system the oil is being discharged through a 3/8" hydraulic hose crimped at both ends. The fill cap is also a vent. I bought it (cheap) at Princess Auto, it is a product used on hydraulic tanks. Note that the can will be filled only up to 2/3 of its height to allow for oil expansion and bucket effect. The total oil volume is then 1200 cc.

2) The oil pump is a 12 volt pump bought at Summit Racing. It is a positive displacement piston/diaphragm type of pump designed for continuous use.

3) Oil filter and filter head 1/2" NPT bought at Princess Auto in the same department. I made the stand.

4) A small oil radiator Rapid-Cool from NAPA. It will be straped to the main (water)radiator.

5) Home made Oil temperature/oil pressure switch. This unit will send a panick signal to two red lights when needed.

Next these will be plumbed permanently in my car. The actual setting may be of limited interest to you since my car is not a VW but a homebuilt sportscar with a longitudinal engine and Suzuki transmission. This means that a good deal of features have be modified to meet this car. If any one is interested I will show pictures later.

Testing of this lubrication system will not be done until May/June when I finally roll the car out.

I am available for more details if I can be of use.

Haybayian.
#18 by haybayian on 12 Mar, 2008 15:03
Quote from: "bevboyy"
Why not run a oil/water core? Some garretts are dual cooled. My IHI 5RHB in my old Thunderbird TurboCoupe was that. Far simpler, just need to run a tap off the coolant line to and from the turbo.

A good point.
Yes I am aware of the water cooled turbos. Improved cooling is a step in the right direction but does not address the "questions" that my post raised:

1)oiling the turbo's journals before the engine's oil pump kicks in and after it has stopped. And I was also suggesting that a separate system would allow the use of a different high speed bearing oil for the turbo only.

The bottom line is that no system is perfect. The system that I am suggesting is not complicated and not expensive...in the scale of the things that are discussed on this forum.

Haybayian
#19 by jtanguay on 12 Mar, 2008 15:09
why use the same weight oil as in your engine when you don't have to? i would use the thinnest weight oil you can get that has good protection. maybe the elf 0w30 economy oil? the turbo will spool so much quicker with a thinner oil :wink:

good luck on your project!
#20 by Mark(The Miser)UK on 12 Mar, 2008 17:14
Does the flowrate of oil to the turbo need to be varied according to the speed of the turbine? I'm thinking at engine idle when turbine is barely rotating will the excessive oil squirt out of bearings and into intake or exhaust? Or is this wrong thinking and the bearings free draining?
#21 by haybayian on 12 Mar, 2008 18:34
Quote from: "Mark(The Miser)UK"
Does the flowrate of oil to the turbo need to be varied according to the speed of the turbine? I'm thinking at engine idle when turbine is barely rotating will the excessive oil squirt out of bearings and into intake or exhaust? Or is this wrong thinking and the bearings free draining?

I don't believe that high oil pressure at low turbine speed should have any particular effect on the bearings' seals. These seals must be designed to sustain a given oil pressure no matter the rotating speed. The Tilton electric pump is rated to produce a maximum of 60 psi which is a safe range considering the Garrett turbo is designed to handle a maximum of 70-80 psi in VWs.
If I am wrong , of course, I would like to know.

Haybayian