Injection pump question (UK members?) - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Injection pump question (UK members?) by Greasecar on 07 Mar, 2008 20:16
• Long story short, my Mini has a 1.5 Pugeot TUD engine from a UK Rover Metro, being a UK car the inj. pump was originally a Lucas.  When the delicate Lucas pump failed I desperately searched for a Bosch VE replacement and found a suitable candidate, a 1.8 Ford Fiesta pump.  I was able to fit the pump and have run it the last two years but have yet to tame the beast and I am hoping that this is the year to do it.  Primarily my issue is significant "bucking" when letting off the throttle. Unfortunately there are a few destinct differences between this pump and common VEs found on older VWs which I am more familiar with and I am not sure where to start with adjustments (governor? cam plate? injector pop pressure?)
  
  The pump number is: NRO 460 484 083 .  The VE spec charts I have come across do not cover NRO part numbers, does anyone know where I can find a P/N decoder or any other info on 1.8 Fiesta pump specs, specifically injector pop pressure camplate #?  Any help would be greatly appriciated.
• #1 by Benjamin on 08 Mar, 2008 04:19
• cool, a mini diesel  
  To start discuss, what power are you aiming and how much work & budget do you wanna spend on it.
  
  What turbo is on the 1.5 and how much boost are you running?
  did you opened the block before, what kind of headgasket are you useing, this is important to know what boost you can run.
  is your turbo intercooler or not?
  
  Are you running a pump with LDA or not?
  you do have a 8mm plunger wich is pretty small.
  
  basicly you up the boost by a MBC, your turbo will spool faster, you adjust the lda side & spring, probably take out the plastic shim, you do the governermod, if it doenst smoke to much you can give the feul quantity 1/4more or so.
  
  After this, and depending on what boost & intercooler you run, you allready have a pretty fast car.
  
  Greetz, Benjamin
• #2 by Greasecar on 08 Mar, 2008 10:08
• Thanks for the suggestions but this is an N/A car (still very quick).  Since the pump I installed is for a significantly different application some adjustments need to be made to improve divability.  I have spent hours the last two driving seasons adjusting the pump in order to get it to a basic level of drivability and the car takes off like a rocket and starts on the first turn.  But I am having a problem with bucking whenever I let off of the throttle.  The hydraulic timing advance and a mysterious mechanical cold start mechanism have added additional factors that have inhibited my ability to dial in the pump because I do not fully undertand their effect on the symptoms.  So I am looking for any advice on how these or other factors related to the pump P/N may be relate4d to my running problem.
  
  Here are a couple of shots of the pump
  
  
  
  
  
  And a shot of the engine layout for those interested.
  
• #3 by Mark(The Miser)UK on 08 Mar, 2008 17:21
• Nice job...
  This is the same engine in my old man's Citroen AX. Very sporty and 86mpg!!
  Info on that fiesta pump can be found in Haynes manual 3286 "Diesel engine service guide"
  That engine did come with a Bosch as well as the Lucas...
  
  I think the timing should be set to 0.92mm for the ford
  The correct Bosch pump is timed to 0.80mm
  
  Can I ask how much trouble you've had with insurance with this mod?
  I'm wondering how best to inform the insurance co of my change. MOT is due soon and insurance renewal. All my mk2 Passats are TD's except this one (which now has the TD engine so it's hardly a 'mod'... In fact I think the insurance allowed factory issue type mods.  If they give me grief I'll just re MOT one of the others :?
• #4 by Greasecar on 09 Mar, 2008 07:50
• Thanks Mark. I'm in the US so insurance and registration are not a problem.  Older cars like this are not subject to engine swap scrutiny. 86mpg!!?? In the mini I can only get 50-60mpg even when I competed in an efficiency competition in which I would shut the engine of and coast as much as possible while keeping RPMs below 2000 on accelerations.
  
  The TUD engine is also found in the Pugeot 106 and I have that hanes manual, unfortunately with the pump change most of those specs are out the window.  We don't have access to Ford, Citroen or Pugeot diesel manuals over here (just the one I special ordered from UK). Any Idea what the injector pop pressure for the fiesta should be? Any idea if Bosch camplates available for the Metro/AX/106 over there?
• #5 by xud9te on 09 Mar, 2008 10:03
• Hi,
  
  The fiesta 1753cc diesel engine has 130bar nozzles fitted to it in all guises.  HTH!
• #6 by bert on 09 Mar, 2008 12:04
• Your lucky to have the cast bottom alloy top 1.5 tud as apposed to the all alloy 1.4D,the 1.4 was poor for blowing head gaskets and if they got a little hot.........it was all over,the 1.5 is a much better unit,parts here are everywhere for the psa 1.5D so worry not,the only pumps i see on those are lucas,never seen a bosch,oh and i live 10miles from the rover plant in longbridge which is now just a concrete slab  :cry:
  Bert
• #7 by xud9te on 09 Mar, 2008 12:37
• For the part number try 0460484083
  
  I seem to find it is linked to fiat 1.7td engines although the pics dont show an LDA on yours.
  
  The Bosch eCat is especially useful for connecting parts to vehicles and vice versa:
  
  http://ecat-online.bosch.de
  
  Use vehicle search if you dont have the part number or article direct search if you do.
  
  Have a look on uk ebay, there are plenty of XUD pumps going for buttons.  You should be able to use the internals from one, or just swap it on.
  
  By the way, really interesting install!  Would the TU engine go behind a normal mini (not clubman) front?  In the third pic above, what is the system with the braided hose?  I thought it was ABS at first, but then what is the centrifuge pump all about... ?:shock:?
  
  Greg
• #8 by smutts on 09 Mar, 2008 13:30
• Hmm. No joy with the link.
  Nice stuffing job getting that motor in there.
• #9 by bert on 09 Mar, 2008 13:45
• looks like a kit for running on svo  :wink:
  Bert
• #10 by Greasecar on 09 Mar, 2008 14:56
• Thanks for all the input guys.  The pump is an NRO 460 484 083 and Andrew is probably on to something with the internal pressure since the pump has that weird hydraulic cold start. Any specific advice on what to check or adjust?
  
    I'll have to check but I think the injectors I have are 130 bar so those should match the pump but I need to check the timing.
  
  The engine runs really strong and I am very impressed at the performance considering it is an NA.  Consistantly delivers 50-60 MPG and I have gotten up to 100 MPH on the highway. It ran even better with the original Lucas pump until the drive shaft snapped, I just hope I can tume this Bosch pump to refine the ride a bit.
  
  We went with the Clubman because there is more room in the nose but have a round nose mini in the works which will get a 1.7 Isuzu out of an Astra and plan on stretching the wings a bit just as you would for other mini swaps.
  
  The additional filter and valve assembly are part of the Greasecar SVO kit.  The braided lines were required for a competition we built the car for.
  
   Here are before and after shots for those interested, unfortunately the build thread is hosted on a site that appears to be down right now:
  
  
  
  
• #11 by xud9te on 09 Mar, 2008 15:36
• Sorry, try this:
  
  http://ecat-online.bosch.de/toc/en/0000MspK2l0kCUrM8iA-PzQ9LTF:-1.srv?view=VIndexFramesetJsp
  
  You will need to put a 0 in front of your part number with no spaces like I put earlier.
• #12 by Mark(The Miser)UK on 09 Mar, 2008 15:37
• 143bar +/-7bar.... for the bosch on a Ford 1.6 engine.
  125 bar for the 1.8 and 250 bar for the 2.5... :mrgreen: