130 to 155

[dillenger1]

sORRY,i know this has been covered,but i had some trouble finding a definite answer.Has anyone tried this?If so how did they react with a pump set at Na spec?

[Baselyne]

So you can use 1.6L injectors that open at 155bar in your N/A?

[Baselyne]

Ok wow, I think im beginning to understand...

So even if your going to turbo a N/a it's best to use the reg n/a injectors?

I guess its all about the pump then?

[Vincent Waldon]

I ran 130 bar injectors in my turbo for a couple of weeks (as a test to confirm they didn't leak) and had no problems other than the usual signs of a bit too much advance... a bit more rattling that usual, even when warm.  My timing was set to 1.03 at the time.... again as an experiment to see if the advance caused by the lower breaking pressure was noticeable.  It was !!

As another data point.... by 1993 and the AAZ VW switched to 150 bar injectors and static timing of 0.85mm... perhaps in recognition of the impact of higher breaking pressures on fuel economy ? The AAZ is definitely tuned for economy not power, at least initially ;-)

[blkboostedtruck]

actually the answer he needs? is if you bump 130bar injectors up to 155bar will it work with his N/A pump that has a LDA on it? or should he stay at 130 bar with his injectors that he is having rebuilt with new GTD nozzels?
his injectors are 130bar bodies and internals!
witch is the best way to go?
I thought it was best to stay at 130bar in his situation?
what do you guys think?
thanks Duane

[Vincent Waldon]

Like most things... I doubt there is a "right" answer.  

VW uses higher breaking pressures on their turbo engines... so not knowing any better I'd be inclined to up the breaking pressure if moving to a turbo.   I've read somewhere that the sweet spot for economy on a 1.6 turbo is around 140-145 bar (balance between atomization and pump losses)... still up from 130.  I also seem to recall Mercedes runs their turbo nozzles in the 145 range too ??  Can someone confirm ??

I think the more important thing, regardless of what injectors you use, is to match the static timing to the breaking pressure.

So:

Using 130 bar injectors ??  Use the NA timing specs (0.95-1mm for example)

Using 155 bar injectors ??  Use the turbo timing specs (1-1.05mm for example)


Just my thoughts at the moment... until someone schools me...


Vince

[CrAzY_DrIveR]

what about 180 bars injectors?

[jtanguay]

what about 180 bars injectors?

maybe if you want poor mileage? unless you're running a TDI

[CrAzY_DrIveR]

i'm running 1.6 idi and want more power, so i bought mercedes 300td nozzles and asked a injector specialist to raise the pressure to 180.

I had to remove the pump before fitting the new injectors and now the car won't start, i'll put back the td 155 injectors to check if it works.

If not something strange is going on here  :roll:

[jimfoo]

At 180 bar, your timing will be off, and you probably will get less fuel. You should put them back to 150-155

[Vincent Waldon]

At 180 bar, your timing will be off, and you probably will get less fuel. You should put them back to 150-155

And your pump losses will go up, resulting in a drop in horsepower and fuel economy.

[CrAzY_DrIveR]

And your pump losses will go up, resulting in a drop in horsepower and fuel economy.

It's strange because a friend has his 1.6 idi with 10mm lda and 180 bar injectors with 125hp dyno tested.
It was not enough so now he his running a 1.9 m-tdi  :lol:

http://www.clubegolfpt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11626&start=0

I hope i can at least start my engine  :oops:

[Giles@PerformanceDiesel]

Hey guys

If u run a turbo u need to run the 155 Bar injectors. and 130 for the NA

the reason for the higher pressure was to make sure you don't get
secondary injection caused by the turbo cylinder pressures lifting
nozzle needle off its seat and causing a seconday injection.

hope this clears up

Giles

[subsonic]

I never would have thought of that.  So if 155 was for stock boost, what about when we turn up the boost and fuel? :?

[Giles@PerformanceDiesel]

Hi again

The injection lines have constant pressure in them during normal running
of the engine all the time.  it is about 200 psi below opening pressure.

so when the combustion starts and the pump has already stopped
injecting fuel then the secondary injection occures because there is
still pressure in the injection lines.

Giles