Author Topic: Bottom end strength (Read 8282 times)

superspringer · « **on:** February 11, 2008, 09:05:38 am »

Hi there guys. Im a bit of a newbie so be gentle with me please

I am going to be putting a TDi conversion into a Mk2 Golf GTi in the near future and am considering my options with which bottom end to use. I want 200 BHP minimum, ideally 250ish and have been informed that the standard 1z/ahu pistons and rods are only safe up to about 215 bhp.
The AFN ones aren't much better but I know the PD ones are - so my question is this: (I am not trying to do this on a shoestring budget, I am realistic, but Im obviously keeping a careful eye on costs...)
Can I mate a PD bottom end to a 1z/ahu/afn head? If so I guess it will be a bit of a mix and match for ancillaries... If not would the crank, rods and pistons from a PD engine go into a 1z/ahu/afn block?

Any other helpful advice would be gratefully received. (I am pretty up to speed with turbos so could offer some advice in return...)

Cheers guys,
Adam.

jtanguay · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2008, 11:10:35 am »

i think PD100 crank, rods, and pistons might work. the bottom end would need some work to fit into a mk2 chassis.

shortysclimbin · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2008, 12:28:02 am »

The pistons will only work if you have valve grooves machined into them. Other than that they should work great. PD stuff has a larger wrist pin in it vs the pd150 and alh style engines. My honest suggestion though is to go with an alh block stock pistons, forged rods (I know a place in UK), and stock bottom end. Then have the crank polished and the whole assembly balanced. That should net you a low budget simple 240+hp bottom end. The weak link right now is rods and the rings are a not good for high boost (higher blow by).

And on the note of 200hp you will need quite a few mods on a tdi to get there. Many are not so cheap... Ask me how I know! If you want I could give you a good head start on parts to get around 188hp to the wheels. I have yet to find 200+ yet though...

superspringer · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2008, 03:39:04 pm »

Quote from: "shortysclimbin"

The pistons will only work if you have valve grooves machined into them. Other than that they should work great. PD stuff has a larger wrist pin in it vs the pd150 and alh style engines. My honest suggestion though is to go with an alh block stock pistons, forged rods (I know a place in UK), and stock bottom end. Then have the crank polished and the whole assembly balanced. That should net you a low budget simple 240+hp bottom end. The weak link right now is rods and the rings are a not good for high boost (higher blow by).

And on the note of 200hp you will need quite a few mods on a tdi to get there. Many are not so cheap... Ask me how I know! If you want I could give you a good head start on parts to get around 188hp to the wheels. I have yet to find 200+ yet though...

I would be very grateful of the name of the place over here for some forged rods, and your pointers on how to get 188 hp, cheers!

MikkiJayne · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2008, 08:23:06 pm »

While we're talking about this stuff does anyone know the numbers for ARP rod and main bolts / studs for these engines?

ARPs catalogue is vague to say the least!

shortysclimbin · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2008, 11:11:59 pm »

mods for 188hp+....

11mm pump
pp764 bosio injectors
upgraded side or front mount intercooler
upgraded intercooler piping 2"
upgrade intake to turbo piping 3"
Chip tune (after mods)
2.5" turbo downpipe
pd130 or pd150 intake
larger vr6 maf housing
larger r32 filter snorkel
Manual boost valve

Choices or turbos.. VNT17 (vb) or VNT17/22 or other hybrids (I Like the tdiparts hybrid for a daily...)

Other items....

3 bar map sensor
gauges
clutch upgrade
lsd

Rods are from rosten performance

AND ARP head stud bolts are not on my list I dont like them they are worse than stock...

MikkiJayne · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2008, 04:40:57 am »

VR6 MAF? :shock: How do you make that work?? That would be perfect for my plans!

I'm not talking about ARP head studs - I meant the bottom end stuff. Or are the OE bolts strong enough?

Rosten's rods are gorgeous!

superspringer · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2008, 08:44:03 am »

Quote from: "shortysclimbin"

mods for 188hp+....

11mm pump
pp764 bosio injectors
upgraded side or front mount intercooler
upgraded intercooler piping 2"
upgrade intake to turbo piping 3"
Chip tune (after mods)
2.5" turbo downpipe
pd130 or pd150 intake
larger vr6 maf housing
larger r32 filter snorkel
Manual boost valve

Choices or turbos.. VNT17 (vb) or VNT17/22 or other hybrids (I Like the tdiparts hybrid for a daily...)

Other items....

3 bar map sensor
gauges
clutch upgrade
lsd

Rods are from rosten performance

AND ARP head stud bolts are not on my list I dont like them they are worse than stock...

Thanks very much for the info - that was pretty much the minimum I was planning on anyway - I can sort out a snazzy VNT hybrid turbo no probs (I work at Turbo Dynamics) and I was going to use at minimum an 11 mm, if not a hybrid 12 mm pump. Uprated injectors are of course on the agenda too! G60 inlet already sourced and custom downpipe going to be made. Large FMIC (poss G60 unit) also planned.....
Watch this space!

shortysclimbin · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2008, 02:42:20 pm »

the vr6 map housing is what you use with a tdi or piersbierg (spelling) MAF sensor. The ecu will need to be programmed to accept the larger housing and the new flow tables will need to be updated. Great upgrade to reduce smoke. you can even go to the r32 housing which is 3.5" same as a a4 audi....

Turbo dynamics hmmm... you have a pm....

Also, as far as bottom end bolts. they are good stock and I have not had problems with them to 26 psi sustained and 18.5:1cr. If you plan on going over that it may not be a bad idea. I would suggest just using the oem head bolts until you see signs of issues though....

MikkiJayne · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2008, 04:16:38 pm »

Are the VR6 and TDI mafs electrically compatible? I know they're both five-wire, but which wires go where? It's not clear from the wiring diragrams :?

Tintin · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2008, 05:35:30 pm »

You can put your TDI VE maf into the VR6 maf housing.

Here a PD150 Maf housing compare to the TDI 90 one.
I bought it on Ebay france, I see other for sale:

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2008, 12:41:57 pm »

Quote from: "MikkiJayne"

While we're talking about this stuff does anyone know the numbers for ARP rod and main bolts / studs for these engines?

ARPs catalogue is vague to say the least!

when i did my buildup,,they didnt have aftermarket rod bolts avalable yet

replace them(rod bolts) because they are stretch bolts

i used raceware head studs,and main studs too

expect to pay around 300 for the head+main set(about 175 for mains,and like 160 for head)
i did contact arp at the time ,and they said they could do custom rod bolts

diesels wont make tons of hp(well yes they will,but just play along w/me)

i havent had my car dynoed,but my gtech said i have like 140 hp,and 240 ft pounds and thats "net",with an estimated vehicle weight of 2000 pounds(add weight,the #'s go up)
if 140 hp net is good for potential 13 sec. 1/4 's thatll work for me
remember diesels make gobs of torque and gear it right (tall)you have a flyer/accelerating machine