Turbo Oil return scavenging pump

[haybayian]

The only way I could see it working, which would require a remote filter, would be to put a check valve after the filter but before the engine, and have your pump suck from between the filter and check valve. I would then plumb it in PARALLEL to the turbo oil feed, probably as close to the turbo as possible. That way the pump wouldn't interfere with normal oiling if it failed, would possibly supplement normal oiling if it made enough pressure, and could be run before or after starting. It would probably send oil to the bearings as well, so would eliminate dry starts.

If I was fanatical enough to set up a special oiling system for my turbo I think that I would leave the engine lubrication system alone and set up a separate oil can, filter , pump and cooler for the turbo, totally independent.
So far I gather that no one here believes that the turbo on a VW needs special attention. For the time being I am going to leave it at that.

Haybayian.

[jimfoo]

I am building a sportscar (Lotus 7) from scratch and my choice of engine was the AAZ. I had the engine rebuilt (long block) by a shop in Toronto and the VE pump was rebuilt by Giles with performance mods. I did not ask what he was going to do. He got me a T3 Garrett and manif. I built my own exhaust line from the turbo to the muffler in 3 " pipes. The VW engine was bolted to a Suzuki Samurai 5 speed transmission which I owned through an adapter sold by ACME in the US .

Currently I am sweating the engine details. The oil filter ended up too close to my home made engine support bracket so I have bought a kit to relocate it. I am ignoring the VW water/oil cooler and setting up a larger air oil cooler. As my car will be a Summer car only I think that this will work. As I was ordering a T3 oil return line I read a bit about turbos and learned that the racing crowd often equip their turbos with oil pumps in an attempt to save their bearings from running too  hot or dry in some circumstances. As you can gather from my questions there are still a few things that I don't  quite understand but I will keep reading.

I am grateful for the advice that you guys are giving me on this forum.

Haybayian

I have a friend who did that, though since he works on Miatas, he put a 160 hp Miata engine in it. I was thinking it would have been cool with a Diesel. Guess you did too. :twisted:

[jtanguay]

the turbo could benefit from a turbo timer.

i'm going to use amsoil's oiler.  its an accumulator that is basically plug n play.  when the ignition is on it releases the oil pressure to 'prime' the engine.  a little bit expensive at $400 but it would go a long way to keeping that engine fresh  :wink:

seperate oiling for the turbo would be neat... with its own oil cooler as well.  turbo's like to run thin oils right?  this would make that possible.

[haybayian]

the turbo could benefit from a turbo timer.

i'm going to use amsoil's oiler.  its an accumulator that is basically plug n play.  when the ignition is on it releases the oil pressure to 'prime' the engine.  a little bit expensive at $400 but it would go a long way to keeping that engine fresh  :wink:

seperate oiling for the turbo would be neat... with its own oil cooler as well.  turbo's like to run thin oils right?  this would make that possible.

Glad to see that someone else is thinking about  turbo lubrication.

What I think is that a completely independent turbo lubricating system would provide  (as you mentionned) the ability to use a different oil;  synthetic oil designed for very high speed rotation and hot temperature. A  separate positive displacement pump would provide the turbo with a constant oil flow which is not the case with the engine's mechanical pump. A separate cooler and filter could also be gauged to the turbo's needs instead of the whole engine. Such a system should be equiped with a pressure/heat sensor and automatic shutoff to save the turbo if the electric pump was going to fail. By-the-way, the system that I am outlining would probably cost less than $400.

Maybe one day I will look into that. For now I have other priorities.

Haybayian.

[Otis2]

Not exactly a completely seperate oiling system for the turbo, but an interesting idea nonetheless, is the "APLS" system (used to be sold as the "Cardiolube").

It's an electronic pre-oiler AND post-oiler.  Accusump is only a pre-oiler.  This thing can be rigged to continue to flow the oil until a set time (or temperature) AFTER engine shutdown.  

So it's like a turbo-timer after shutdown, except it doesn't leave your engine idling (it just kills your battery!)  And the next time you start your engine, it spools up its pump so you have oil pressure before starting.

www.wetstart.com

[bigblockchev]

This sounds like a brilliant idea, a true sports car that is fun to drive. I would encourage you to keep it as simple as possible, unless you like working on it more than driving. I was trying to figure out if you  were referring to a dry sump oil scavenge pump as this is common on real race engines. Dry sumps are used to reduce engine frictional losses by keeping the crank from whipping the oil to a froth by removing it to a separate oil reservoir. If there is inadequate oil drainage from the turbo bearings the trapped oil  in the bearing cartridge will start to leak past the turbo seals so possibly a scavenge pump might help there as in a vanagon td setup where the oil drain is almost horizontal. From what I have seen the oil accumulator systems and prelube pumps are solutions to a problem of excess money in your pocket. The VW turbos in near stock configuration are quite durable and well designed. The guys with the Skylines and hopped up Hondas are going to blow up their motors & turbos whether they have prelube systems , turbo timers , or accumulators  it's what they like to do. Just my opinion. Cheers Dan

[jtanguay]

engine pre-lube is a great idea.  if you start your car with the clutch depressed it puts a lot of load on the thrust bearing since there is no oil pressure.. with an accumulator you can 'virtually' eliminate this problem.  and maybe squeeze more life out of the engine  :wink:

i'm definitely going with amsoil's system though... it's pretty much plug n play with minimal installation requirements.