Author Topic: IP's interchangeble?  (Read 2466 times)

January 17, 2008, 07:26:04 pm

Jolly1977

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IP's interchangeble?
« on: January 17, 2008, 07:26:04 pm »
I have a '81 rabbit with the 1.6NA that doesnt run.  I checked the IP timing and its almost right on.  I noticed that the timing needle will jump/move every time it delivers fuel (obviously).  Is it possible, that even though the pump has been installed and timed correctly, that its delivering fuel to the wrong cylinder?

The guy I bought it from (I bought in a non running condition) said that the IP that was on there was not original.  Is it possible this pump is from a different engine that has a different firing order?

Reply #1January 17, 2008, 07:28:12 pm

vanagonturbo

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IP's interchangeble?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2008, 07:28:12 pm »
not likely that you have a pump with a different timing order. If it has a VW part number on it then you have a pump that will run the engine.

What scares me about your story is that you refer to the timing needle jumping. What exactly do you mean by that?

Reply #2January 17, 2008, 07:36:26 pm

Jolly1977

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IP's interchangeble?
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2008, 07:36:26 pm »
Sorry, it means the needle moves from 0.0" to 0.037" on the dial indicator.

Supposedly the car never ran after this pump was put on.  I have this feeling that it never really ran all that good to begin with (there were a few cans of ether in the car when I got it).  

What is the significance of the "yellow dot" on some of the IP's?

Reply #3January 17, 2008, 10:26:25 pm

burn_your_money

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IP's interchangeble?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2008, 10:26:25 pm »
If you can't find the mark on the pump/bracket you can remove the bolt from the pump pulley and look at the key. It should be pointed upwards leaning slightly back towards the engine. If it's pointing downwards your pump is 180 degrees out and the engine wouldn't run.

Is it actually putting out fuel? Is there smoke out the back when you are cranking? If not make sure the stop solenoid is working
Tyler

Reply #4January 18, 2008, 03:55:49 am

Jolly1977

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IP's interchangeble?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2008, 03:55:49 am »
Even if the glow plugs were at the end of their life, the compression was low, and the pump timing was off a little, I would think there might be partial combustion of fuel?  But,,, not the case, no sign of smoke out of the tail pipe.

The glow plugs get warm to the touch if I cycle them on and off a few times, and the stop solenoid seems to be functioning.  I checked, and the pump does deliver fuel.  I timed the pump according to the Bentley manual, cam lobes up, #1 at TDC, etc.

I marked the pump pulley with a white mark at the very top, when the pump is supposedly suppose to deliver to #1.  I had my old man crank on it for a while and I watched as fuel dripped from the fuel line.  I was able to position myself so I could sort of see both the fuel line and the pulley at the same time.  I was able to determine that fuel is being delivered way past TDC of #1 (somewhere around 5 o'clock when your looking at the pulley from the passenger side).

I figured it might be a 180 off.  I havent pulled the pulley yet to check the key way position, but the mark on the pump, pump bracket, and pulley all line up at #1 TDC.  What would cause the pump to be off so far if all the components were installed correctly (not knowing about the position of the key way at this point)?  

The key way prevents you from incorrectly installing the pulley.  The pump and bracket are marked so you cant screw that up.  I dont get it???   If its a rebuilt pump, could the rebuilder have screwed something up?  What would cause the pump to off 180?

Reply #5January 18, 2008, 04:19:04 am

foxracer1

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IP's interchangeble?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008, 04:19:04 am »
My friend and i installed an eco pump on an older 1.6na and for what ever reason the mark on the pulley wasn't correct. Using the dial indicator we just moved the pulley back to where it needed to be on the belt. His would run but it was severly over advanced.

We positioned the engine on TDC #1 the moved the pump till the dial indicator read close to the spec, installed the belt then set the timming exactly.
84 4dr Rabbit 1.6 N/A sold to friend
86 Jetta TD getting raced out AHU 02A
98 Jetta TDI Malone tune stg 3
91 S10 305 TPI T56
86 S10 2WD Prerunner project.


Now offering turbo rebuilds. HP or stock. Any turbo you have i can rebuild it for ya.
Reseal injection pumps PM for det

Reply #6January 18, 2008, 09:29:37 am

Jolly1977

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IP's interchangeble?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2008, 09:29:37 am »
Im not sure the engine and tranny have ever been seperated.  So I dont think its that.  Where is the camplate, and what would I look for?  What would indicate the firing order being 180 off, if the mark on the flywheel is at and cam are at TDC (lets assume the flywheel is correct as well)?

So lets say the pump is 180 off (and assuming everything else is correct), to remedy the problem would it be just a matter of rotating the pulley 180 degrees, and retiming to the cam and crank?

Ok, and I need a lesson on nomenclature here...  What is an eco, mk2, mk3, caddy, etc.?

Reply #7January 18, 2008, 12:24:44 pm

burn_your_money

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IP's interchangeble?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2008, 12:24:44 pm »
Quote from: "Jolly1977"


So lets say the pump is 180 off (and assuming everything else is correct), to remedy the problem would it be just a matter of rotating the pulley 180 degrees, and retiming to the cam and crank?


Correct, except you are turning the whole pump (well the pump shaft) 180 degrees


Quote from: "Jolly1977"

Ok, and I need a lesson on nomenclature here...  What is an eco, mk2, mk3, caddy, etc.?


eco is a turbo diesel with small plunger in the pump, a cat, a k14 and no LDA

mk1- 1974-1984
mk2 - 1985-1992
mk3 - 1993- 1999.5
mk4 - 1999.5-2007???
mk5 present
That only applies for Golf and Jettas
Tyler