Injection pump timing

[vwmike]

I just bought an 88 Jetta TD. It's a Canadian car that apparently someone imported. It has 348k km on the clock. I get the feeling someone tried to play mechanic previously. Of the things I see they screwed with are:

-New belts
-New Alternator
-Battery was hooked up backwards
-#4 glow plug hole is crossthreaded

So, the glow plug was loose and I removed it and cleaned it out a bit. It threaded back in, but I think I need to run a tap through and then retorque it as it is smoking from around the glow plug. The car runs, but requires a lot of throttle to keep it going and it smokes pretty bad. The smoke, however, is not blue so I'm of the opinion that whoever decided to play mechanic screwed up the pump timing. I don't have a diesel manual yet, but I need some instructions for setting the pump timing. I bought the tools, but I haven't used them yet.

I found this explanation - http://www.vwdieselparts.com/ipump.htm but found it a little confusing. It says to set the dial indicator to 1mm and then says to zero it? Am I setting timing at 1mm higher than whatever the setting is when the engine is rolled back off TDC? Maybe it's just because I haven't used a dial indicator before. Anyways...please help  

[chrissev]

I found this explanation - http://www.vwdieselparts.com/ipump.htm but found it a little confusing. It says to set the dial indicator to 1mm and then says to zero it? Am I setting timing at 1mm higher than whatever the setting is when the engine is rolled back off TDC? Maybe it's just because I haven't used a dial indicator before. Anyways...please help  

no prob.  I am tweaking my timing tonight so I can give you the quick breakdown on how to do it.  I guess you know how to do all the other stuff other than use the gauge?  One trick I always tell people is to remove the air box so you can reach your hand down and turn the crank bolt.  Otherwise it is hard.  With the dial gauge it is easy.  Turn the gauge face until it is at zero on the pointer.  Put the gauge in until it reads 0.117 (one turn around completely then to .017).  Turn the crank backwards until the gauge stops moving.  Then pull the gauge out until it reads .039  When it reads .039, turn the face of the gauge to zero.  Then turn the crank clockwise until you get to TDC (look through the hole in the bellhousing).  When you are at TDC, look at the gauge.  This is your timing.  It should be .0375 to .042.  Set it to .042 and your engine will run the best.  For your leaky glowplug, try putting anti seize compound around the plug and then screwing it in.  It should seal it.

[vwmike]

Thanks for the help. I didn't even end up playing with the pump timing. I was occupied enough just getting the belt on right. I'm amazed that the engine isn't trashed, and I'm also amazed that it even ran. When I got the cam lock tool in this is what the pump timing was like:


Notice the timing tensioner that's on backwards. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to work on cars. I took your advice and used anti-seize on the glow plug. I also put a different one in and that seemed to solve the problem. So, the car runs like a top now which I'm very happy about  

[chrissev]

Thanks for the help. I didn't even end up playing with the pump timing. I was occupied enough just getting the belt on right. I'm amazed that the engine isn't trashed, and I'm also amazed that it even ran. When I got the cam lock tool in this is what the pump timing was like:


Notice the timing tensioner that's on backwards. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to work on cars. I took your advice and used anti-seize on the glow plug. I also put a different one in and that seemed to solve the problem. So, the car runs like a top now which I'm very happy about  

well whoever put that belt on obviously didn't know that the injection pump pulley had to be at TDC as well I guess.  Luckily they got the cam and crank locations right or you wouldn't have an engine.  Funny that it even ran like that.  Nice job with the tensioner.  I guess the edge of the timing belt is a bit chewed up from running off to the side like that.  Amazing the tensioner was even turning.  It must have been rubbing against the cylinder head quite a bit.  

The thing I hate most is when people who don't know what they're doing work on cars.  My car has indented injector seats (in the cylinder head) because someone put injectors in (30 bar ones no less, in a turbo!) without using a torque wrench and I guess they just reefed on them until they couldn't turn them anymore.  Wonderful thing to do to an aluminum cylinder head!

[vwmike]

The belt was just burning on the tensioner. It didn't take the edge off or anything, but now that I know the engine is good I think I might change the belt again just to be on the safe side (the belt was new when the previous owner put it on, then the car wouldn't run).

How long do TD engines usually last? This one is at 348k km, or about 216k miles and runs better than my NA Rabbit pickup with 160k on it. I think it's mostly highway miles on the jetta because the drivers seat doesn't show any wear. Maybe I'll start a new thread about this one, but how many miles is too many to start turning up the boost? I was going to intercool it first. I had thoughts of installing the pyrometer and boost gauge I had bought for my truck.

[fatmobile]

Ha, that's messed up. Glad to hear it still works.
 The set it at 1mm is so you aren't working at the edge of the gauge limits. So the gauge won't bottom out in the middle of the reading so like he said. bottom it out then pull it back one rotation before you lock the gauge to the adapter.
 Have the clutch timing mark near the bell housing pointer.
 Reach down and put the car in high gear. 5th is toward the firewall and off to the drivers side.
 Push the car back while looking at the gauge. The benefit of pushing the car backwards instead of turning the crank is it's so easy to look down at the gauge while you are pushing the car back and not scaping your knuckles trying to reach down and work with a wrench on the crank.
 When it stops moving, that's where you zero it. I pull it forward a little then shove it back to make sure that is where it stops.
 Then pull the car forward or grab the drivers wheel and roll it forward while watching the timing hole (it's also easier to look in the timing hole when you are pushing the car, compared to turning the crank)... till the pointer is right on the timing mark.
 Now move the pump till the gauge reads what you want it to.

[Rat407]

Ha, that's messed up. Glad to hear it still works.
 The set it at 1mm is so you aren't working at the edge of the gauge limits. So the gauge won't bottom out in the middle of the reading so like he said. bottom it out then pull it back one rotation before you lock the gauge to the adapter.
 Have the clutch timing mark near the bell housing pointer.
 Reach down and put the car in high gear. 5th is toward the firewall and off to the drivers side.
 Push the car back while looking at the gauge. The benefit of pushing the car backwards instead of turning the crank is it's so easy to look down at the gauge while you are pushing the car back and not scaping your knuckles trying to reach down and work with a wrench on the crank.
 When it stops moving, that's where you zero it. I pull it forward a little then shove it back to make sure that is where it stops.
 Then pull the car forward or grab the drivers wheel and roll it forward while watching the timing hole (it's also easier to look in the timing hole when you are pushing the car, compared to turning the crank)... till the pointer is right on the timing mark.
 Now move the pump till the gauge reads what you want it to.

This should be submitted as a change to the Bentley. Way better to understand and much easier to do.
Thanks!

[chrissev]

How long do TD engines usually last? This one is at 348k km, or about 216k miles and runs better than my NA Rabbit pickup with 160k on it. I think it's mostly highway miles on the jetta because the drivers seat doesn't show any wear.

They last a long time.  Maybe 500,000km or more.  With 348,000 km you're probably a little more than half way through its service life.  Best way to tell is to take the injectors out and check the compression.

Maybe I'll start a new thread about this one, but how many miles is too many to start turning up the boost? I was going to intercool it first. I had thoughts of installing the pyrometer and boost gauge I had bought for my truck.

 Be careful of overboosting that engine.  The 1.6 head gaskets were not very good.  If you turn the boost past 15psi you will probably blow the gasket.

[vwmike]

How long do TD engines usually last? This one is at 348k km, or about 216k miles and runs better than my NA Rabbit pickup with 160k on it. I think it's mostly highway miles on the jetta because the drivers seat doesn't show any wear.

They last a long time.  Maybe 500,000km or more.  With 348,000 km you're probably a little more than half way through its service life.  Best way to tell is to take the injectors out and check the compression.

Maybe I'll start a new thread about this one, but how many miles is too many to start turning up the boost? I was going to intercool it first. I had thoughts of installing the pyrometer and boost gauge I had bought for my truck.

 Be careful of overboosting that engine.  The 1.6 head gaskets were not very good.  If you turn the boost past 15psi you will probably blow the gasket.

Do you think a new head gasket would be a good idea or help it hold more boost? I sort of don't want to pull the head because I'm afraid of what I might find  

Oh, and the cam/crank timing was off as well. I really have no clue how it didn't bend any valves. Obviously it didn't though because it still runs  

[chrissev]

Do you think a new head gasket would be a good idea or help it hold more boost? I sort of don't want to pull the head because I'm afraid of what I might find  

-is the gasket leaking any oil?  Usually they leak at the front.  If it is you should pull the head and replace it.  The leak will just get worse and worse.  Someone on this forum was discussing upgraded head gaskets for those cars that could hold more boost.  Hopefully they'll read this and post again.  I can't remember the post it was in unfortunately.  

The main problem with the head gaskets on those cars is you are dealing with a very high compression engine (23:1 ratio) that isn't working with that much displacement (only 1.6 litres) so any amount that you pressurize the intake is going to multiply by quite a bit when the air goes into the cylinder and is compressed.  It's a bad design to start with and the headgaskets were notoriously unreliable.  

I guess you're really lucky that your engine wasn't destroyed with the way the timing belt was put on.  Apparently even if the belt is on a tooth off the valves can contact the pistons.  Perhaps the camshaft pulley was off center and that saved the engine.  You should loosen the pulley off the camshaft and let it float free and then put the timing belt on, then tension and retighten the cam pulley bolt, so that the pulley is exactly in the right place.  That might be why the original mechanic(?) or whoever worked on it before, couldn't get the belt on right.

[vwmike]

Do you think a new head gasket would be a good idea or help it hold more boost? I sort of don't want to pull the head because I'm afraid of what I might find  

-is the gasket leaking any oil?  Usually they leak at the front.  If it is you should pull the head and replace it.  The leak will just get worse and worse.  Someone on this forum was discussing upgraded head gaskets for those cars that could hold more boost.  Hopefully they'll read this and post again.  I can't remember the post it was in unfortunately.  

The main problem with the head gaskets on those cars is you are dealing with a very high compression engine (23:1 ratio) that isn't working with that much displacement (only 1.6 litres) so any amount that you pressurize the intake is going to multiply by quite a bit when the air goes into the cylinder and is compressed.  It's a bad design to start with and the headgaskets were notoriously unreliable.  

I guess you're really lucky that your engine wasn't destroyed with the way the timing belt was put on.  Apparently even if the belt is on a tooth off the valves can contact the pistons.  Perhaps the camshaft pulley was off center and that saved the engine.  You should loosen the pulley off the camshaft and let it float free and then put the timing belt on, then tension and retighten the cam pulley bolt, so that the pulley is exactly in the right place.  That might be why the original mechanic(?) or whoever worked on it before, couldn't get the belt on right.

I'm not sure if the gasket is leaking. I'm going to pick up some more engine cleaner stuff and clean it off so I can see more clearly. I loosened the cam sprocket and got it free from the camshaft when I timed the belt correctly. It really couldn't be on there better than it is right now, but I get the feeling the belt stretched when the tensioner was on there backwards. I think I'll change the belt again before I start driving it.

[chrissev]

I think I'll change the belt again before I start driving it.

for sure.  don't take any chances.  you know what happens if the belt breaks

[ejust]

cant you just insert a dial indicator into the hole, zero the face, spin the engine backwards till needle stops moving, re zero the guage, the turn engine to TDC and take reading?

Thats how i do do it..am i wrong?