pump changed, I need a hand

[Vanagoner]

Hi all, my first time posting here.  I appreciate all of the help you give.
My old IP sprung a leak at the cold start lever (82 vanagon) and yesterday I swapped in an '87 jetta n/a pump.  I haven't set the static timing on it yet, but tried firing it anyway.  No go.  Lines are well bled & I'm getting fuel in there, and it does run on a bit of propane (with white smoke).  Could the static position of the IP be so far off that it won't start, or should I suspect that I'm off a tooth on the pump?  I've never done this before.  Thanks.
Sage Harmos

[jimfoo]

Hi all, my first time posting here.  I appreciate all of the help you give.
My old IP sprung a leak at the cold start lever (82 vanagon) and yesterday I swapped in an '87 jetta n/a pump.  I haven't set the static timing on it yet, but tried firing it anyway.  No go.  Lines are well bled & I'm getting fuel in there, and it does run on a bit of propane (with white smoke).  Could the static position of the IP be so far off that it won't start, or should I suspect that I'm off a tooth on the pump?  I've never done this before.  Thanks.
Sage Harmos

Hey fellow Coloradan! Yes, it could be way off. Just a tiny amount of rotation makes a big difference in timing. Hope you have a warm garage to work in. Have the timing tools?

[Vanagoner]

Hi Jim- No, I don't have the tools (other than the old eyeball). Also, the recieving hole in the pump bracket is partly blocked by the bracket behind it.  I'll take a closer look at it with a full reserve of patience and see what it looks like.  My friend in Lafayette is letting me use his garage.  Woulda been ugly yesterday outside in that snowstorm, eh?
-Sage

[Vanagoner]

a better answer to your question about tools is, I don't have the plate or pin, but have access to a plunge dial micrometer without the adapter or (worse yet) an electronic vernier caliper.  Just happy I'm not crashing valves!

[jimfoo]

I have the pin and correct dial gauge and adapter, but not the cam plate, though that is easy to get around. Let me know if you need to borrow them.

[Vanagoner]

Thanks, neighbor.  I might take you up on that.  I'll PM you later.

[jimfoo]

Sounds good. I have to go up to Boulder tomorrow or the next day, so may be able to drop it by then.

[Vanagoner]

Thanks Jim, you're a champ.  I appreciate the tools on loan.
I tore back into it today, and learned a lot, but it is still not running.
The belt never found the right groove between the crank and the pinned pump.  It was always about 2/3 of a tooth off.  The pump I took off was a stock n/a vanagon pump (82), and the replacement is off of an n/a jetta with the idle advance feature connected to the cold start lever.  I eventually settled on a groove outside of the pinned zone and tried to chase the timing by turning the pump the same way in it's slots.  Didn't work.  Fuel gets in while cranking, builds up until it "starts" and burns off, and quits again.
The cam pulley was loosened but I'm thinking that I need to loosen (read replace) the crank bolt- is it a tapered fit like the cam or a keyed fit like the pump.  Sorry to be such a noobie.  I guess this is the vwdiesel initiation ritual.  

[jimfoo]

Not sure on the crank nut. I haven't touched that yet. I wonder if the vane pump is a little sticky or something? If you have a low pressure electric, you could put it in line as well and see if that helps. Make sure there are NO air leaks as well. Do you have a clear section in the fuel line before the IP?

[Vanagoner]

Yes, I can see that there is fuel there, and know that the pump was full up on "marvel mystery oil" as a primer.  Smoke comes out of the exhaust as I turn it before it fires, and when it does for a brief burst, it makes quite a cloud (white).  The pulley wheel on the new pump might be alligned differently than the old pump and pulley.  I noticed that my foot feed brackets didn't bolt straight across to the new pump- the new one is a little different in the castings.

[Vanagoner]

:oops: Silly me.
after looking at things (cam lobes down, and why the plate wouldn't go in flat, and learning which end is #1) My engine is out 180.  Sorry guys.  
I'll let you know how it is after I get to it.

[jimfoo]

Good to hear it was something easy. Good luck.

[jimfoo]

Well, my engine is f-ed, so I am probably going to need my timing tools back pretty soon.

[Vanagoner]

Oh no, what happened to your engine?

I was out of town last weekend, so I'm planning on a giterdone or tow this weekend.  Can you wait until Sun? if not, maybe I can sneak over there tomorrow and try to get it done.
thanks-  Sage

[jimfoo]

I can wait until the weekend. I still need to get my other car going, minor stuff, and then tow it down to wash all the oil off from my failed filling attempts. The story of what happened is here. http://vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=11041