Author Topic: renamed - PROBLEM FOUND - now need help with the solution (Read 19173 times)

type53b_gtd · « **Reply #30 on:** June 12, 2004, 08:34:02 pm »

The bearings at the ends of the rods are rod bearings. YOu're likely to need standard size bearings unless the crank has been machined previously. You can use the current bearings as a reference.

If you are trying to get the engine running with a minimal amount of work, then replace the rod bearings and close it up.

However, if you're looking for a reliable engine, I would remove it from the car, have the block inspected by a machine shop, the intermediate shaft bearings replaced, the crank inspected, and reassemble with new rings (hone only) or oversize pistons and rings (bore and hone) New mains and rod bearings would go in with the crank. If something happened to the engine to cause one of the rod bearings to disintegrate, chances are that there will be other problems waiting to bite you in the rear.

Dr. Diesel · « **Reply #31 on:** June 12, 2004, 11:22:24 pm »

Mikey,
Carefully read the entire engine overhaul section in your bentley. You will need inside and outside micrometers and plastigauge to do the job properly.
Briefely, you need to know the journal diameters to choose bearing thickness. You need to measure the bearing housing diameters of the rod big ends and the mains. You need to measure them for size and roundness. A rod bearing housing that is out of round will deform the bearing shell and very rapid wear could occur. After selecting bearing thickness, assemble and check for oil clearances with plastigauge. There needs to be a little space in there for the oil to provide a cushion. Dimensions are all in your bentley.
Let me repeat that word. B-E-N-T-L-E-Y. hehe

Mikeyworks · « **Reply #32 on:** June 13, 2004, 01:05:25 pm »

For some reason, when I postel last it did not take...so let me try this again.

I appreciate all the help and I apologize if I seemed hyper before. I am very anxious to get this truck back together and running. I want to make it my daily driver...for at least a while. I figure that in about a year or two I will take it back down to nothing and do a complete rebuild on the entire engine and truck. So I hope this will last for a while at least.

Right now the engine is in the truck, all wiring is attached, and the only thing keeping it from running at this point in time is the fact that there are now no bearings on the bottom end for the rod bearings. I would like to do this with minimal intrusion into the rest of the engine, so keep your fingers crossed for me.

Well, I hope to get under there tonight and measure the bearings, the rod ends, the crankshaft size, and all the rest to verify which size I need. I will use my trusty Bentley (I repeat, B-E-N-T-L-E-Y) and have it right right by my side the whole time.

I will be sure to keep you guys posted, and again, thanks for everything.

Mikey

dub · « **Reply #33 on:** June 14, 2004, 02:23:51 pm »

careful when you put the oil pan back on - I just changed my rod bearings and oil pump (was feeling good about that) and then stripped two bolts when puting the pan on - some of the screws mount into aluminum (was feeling not so good at that time) - it's on and doesn't leak though . sooner or later gotta get those two things fixed though.

I think that Bentley says 15 lbs of torque, 7 lbs. is more like it!

Mikeyworks · « **Reply #34 on:** June 14, 2004, 08:08:10 pm »

Thanks for the advice....I will keep that in mind.

That said, I have another question, are the rod bolts stretch bolts?

I have heard they are, and need to confirm this so I can order them. If so, does anybody have a part number?

Thanks,
Mikey

type53b_gtd · « **Reply #35 on:** June 15, 2004, 09:12:16 am »

The rod bolts are identified as "torque angle" bolts in the parts catalogue. Are they strretch bolts? Probably. Do you need to replace them? Not in my experience. Torque them carefully following the procedure in the Bentley (25 lb-ft plus 90 degrees comes to mind, but don't take my word for it) and make sure (doubly damnned-sure) that you have the caps on straight, oriented correctly, and matched up to the correct rods - following the marks you placed on the caps and the rods before you removed the caps (right?

)

Drew

Mikeyworks · « **Reply #36 on:** June 15, 2004, 02:37:46 pm »

Drew,

Thanks for the reply.
I was thinking more about this today and if those are one-time-use stretch bolts, then when you do a bearing job, you would have to replace the con-rods. The bolts are integrated into the con-rods IIRC.

Have no fear, I marked the bearing caps and also photographed their orientation (not sexual orientation of course... :lol: ), plus they are still hanging on the bottom of the engine so nothing happens to them. I hope to order my parts tomorrow and have the engine running by Saturday.

I promise to keep you updated.

Thanks,
Mikey

type53b_gtd · « **Reply #37 on:** June 15, 2004, 03:11:25 pm »

Quote from: "Sharkey"

nothing in the Bentley recommends their replacement.

I recall having read in one of my Bentley's that JH (_or_ JH and PL) rod bolts should be used only once. The electric whiz-bang A2 Bentley makes no reference to it on the PL engine, so it may have been in the A1 Bentley for the JH engine. Certainly nothing about the diesel rod bolts for sure.

Another point of interest (or not) is that the parts catalogue lists two rod bolts, both pressed in, one torque angle, the other not, on the TD engine. The torque angle bolts should have a flanged nut, the non torque angle bolts have a straight nut, and a different torque spec. By 84 the bolts should be torque angle style, but check the A1 diesel Bentley to be sure.

Drew

Dr. Diesel · « **Reply #38 on:** June 16, 2004, 12:02:28 am »

when in doubt, change 'em out.... with ARP. hehe

type53b_gtd · « **Reply #39 on:** June 16, 2004, 08:27:55 am »

Quote from: "Dr. Diesel"

when in doubt, change 'em out.... with ARP. hehe

Would those be the rod bolts for Ford 351 small block engines that are a "close" fit?

Drew

dub · « **Reply #40 on:** June 16, 2004, 01:42:37 pm »

when you change those bearings, you will see that the lower end of the rods (the bottom clamp that you remove) all have a letter or something all oriented the same way, so that will help out a little if you forget to mark one of them (as I did)

one other thing, when i bought new rod bearings they had holes in them (I think that they are for gassers), and the ones I pulled out didn't. I used them anyway and have had no problems, and I changed them about 2K ago

type53b_gtd · « **Reply #41 on:** June 16, 2004, 01:49:31 pm »

Quote from: "dub"

when you change those bearings, you will see that the lower end of the rods (the bottom clamp that you remove) all have a letter or something all oriented the same way, so that will help out a little if you forget to mark one of them (as I did)

There is a little "nib" or lug cast into the rod and a matching one on the rod cap to ensure correct orientation. The "nib" is supposed to be twoards the front side of the motor.

Quote

one other thing, when i bought new rod bearings they had holes in them (I think that they are for gassers), and the ones I pulled out didn't. I used them anyway and have had no problems, and I changed them about 2K ago

Some earlier turbo diesels had holes in the rod bearing and the rod to provide oil lubrication to the piston. The presence of a hole in the bearing doesn't really matter, however if there's a corresponding hole in the rod then you want to make sure that the replacement bearings have the hole!

Drew

Dr. Diesel · « **Reply #42 on:** June 16, 2004, 07:52:53 pm »

I used toyota celica rod bolts in mine. That's just because they were sitting on the shelf. I would suspect that another vw engine, perhaps G60, would be the same size as the TD's.